Jump to content


MotoMummy Brake Line Review


41 replies to this topic

#1 MotoMummy

    Parts Bitch

  • Administrators
  • 3,404 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Texas Y'all
  • Bike: 07 GSXR 1000 & 99 R1

Posted 09 December 2010 - 07:55 PM

In this review we will cover Spiegler brake lines and Goodridge.

To start out the main two reasons people get aftermarket brake lines are to get better braking and for looks. Aftermarket brake lines do not flex like the stock rubber hoses do. Because aftermarket lines do not flex all of the pressure from pulling the lever goes directly into the pads or into braking. This gives better feel, braking, and feedback.

Most aftermarket brake lines will be stainless steel braided lines. These are very fine strands of stainless steel woven together to make a very strong line. A few manufacturers make Kevlar lines, but they are not as popular because kevlar deteriorates in uv light so you have to put a coating over it to protect and this extra coating negates the weight savings of using kevlar. A while back we weighed kevlar lines vs stainless steel and found them to be about a 1/10th of ounce less weight per line.

We also weighed Fren Tubo carbon fiber wrapped lines against Spiegler stainless lines. 06-07 GSXR 600/750 lines are what we had in stock. It's 3.9 ounces for all 3 Fren Tubo lines (no bolts/washers). The Spieglers are 6.8 ounces for all the lines. So about a 3 ounce difference until you figure to protect the cf you need to put the protective wrap over it. You do that and now the cf lines are 4.7 ounces. You save 2 ounces total of non rotational weight. That weight difference is the same as say a brand new set of brake pads and some warn about a 1/8 of the way down. So it only takes 8 sets of cf lines vs stainless to save 1 lb off your bike of non rotational weight. With Kevlar if you go high and say it's half an ounce less weight it only takes 32 full sets of lines vs stainless to save 1 lb. This is why nearly all race teams, track day riders, and street guys run stainless steel brake lines.

The most popular brake line routing you will find will be 2 lines coming off the master cylinder and then one line going down to each front caliper. Other line routing options are 1 line coming off the master cylinder and then going down to the right caliper where a double banjo bolt will hold that line on the caliper and the crossover line that goes to the left caliper. This routing is the most popular for stock bikes. The other common type of routing will be one line coming off the master cylinder and then have a T or Y fitting in place under the nose of the bike where 2 lines will then branch off the fitting and go to each caliper. In all of the different ways to route the lines, there is no performance difference. With hydraulic fluid when you apply x amount of pressure on one end you get theoretically x amount of pressure on the other end. Of course some pressure will be lost by friction of the fluid on the sidewalls, etc, but with how short brake lines are it's barely measurable yet alone worth discussing.

People do have reasons to use different routing types. Many endurance racers will do the 3 line front with the Y or T fitting so that they can run quick disconnect brake lines on each caliper and the master cylinder. This allows swapping the brake components during a race much easier and quicker. Many high end race teams also use this routing as it's easier to work on the bike and takes up less room under the nose of the bike. You can often see this with race teams who have the lines in front of the forks and lots of slack in the lines. The downside to this routing is that it costs more as you're dealing with 3 brake lines and a T or Y fitting to attach the 3 lines together. Below is a Goodridge picture of this type of routing.

By far the most popular way to route brake lines is the two lines off the master cylinder, and then going down to each caliper. It's the most economical choice for brake lines, keeps a clean look, and still offers great performance.

One other thing to note with brake lines is that some are DOT approved while others are not. For instance Goodridge lines are not DOT approved while Spiegler are DOT and TUV approved.

Spiegler brake lines:
DOT and TUV approved
Lifetime warranty
Slightly over 3mm interior diameter
All made in America except for the fittings which are made in Switzerland.
All fittings are made of billet aluminum.
All fittings are anodized
The stainless steel lines are made of 94 strands of steel.
Offers the most color combinations we have seen to date.
Patented anti-twist technology
Color matched banjo bolts that match the color of the banjo's.
The most vibrant and true colors of lines and fittings that we have seen.
Comes with all banjo bolts, crush washers, and anti-twist technology that locks the line down and lets you turn the banjo using the white tube.

Some of the Spiegler colors. They offer many more options and can be found here.
https://www.motomumm...&cat=292&page=1
Posted Image


What you get in a Spiegler brake line kit (instructions also included)
Posted Image


Close up of the patented anti-twist system.
Posted Image


Held by one Spiegler brake line. A fun demonstration showing the strength of the lines.
Posted Image

Spiegler is also the only company we know of at this time who builds their lines with optional quick disconnects like we mentioned above. Below is a picture showing our shop bike with the Spiegler lines and quick disconnects on the lines. This allows us to disconnect the lines and take the calipers off and put them back on without having to bleed the brakes. We have this on every brake line to make working on the bike much easier. Most racers do this to make working on the bike easier or swapping parts during a race much quicker.
https://www.motomumm...&cat=292&page=1
Posted Image


Below you can see the quick disconnect while it's apart. We have taken this apart in the shop to show people at least 200 times and have yet to bleed the brakes again. It's a flawless design.
Posted Image




Goodridge brake lines:
Lifetime warranty
Stainless steel lines
Zinc-plated, mile steel fittings.
3mm interior diameter
Includes washers and banjo bolts as seen below.
The clear line kits are the best bang for the buck we have seen for the track guys.

https://www.motomumm...ome.php?cat=312
Posted Image

This picture shows the 3 line routing with the fitting. The yellow parts on the line do slide around on the line covering or can be removed. These are the Goodridge Superbike lines.
https://www.motomumm...ome.php?cat=312
Posted Image
Corey
-------
Posted Image
Where all shipping is free.

#2 MotoMummy

    Parts Bitch

  • Administrators
  • 3,404 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Texas Y'all
  • Bike: 07 GSXR 1000 & 99 R1

Posted 09 December 2010 - 09:08 PM

Thanks to Spieglerusa.com we got a few great pictures of the testing that Spiegler performs on their brake lines. In addition to the bike hanging test of course haha :workout


The picture below is the high pressure test bench. DOT requires you pressurize the line up to 4,000psi and hold it and then raise it to 5,000psi. Spieglers have been tested up to 16,500psi.
Posted Image



The test below is the tensile strength test. DOT requires you pull the line at one inch per minute and it must get up to 325lbs of strength.
Posted Image



Below you can see the Spiegler lines not only held at 325lbs, but up to 650lbs. The color coating on the top will not stretch so it rips of the ends, but as you can see the stainless steel strands stretched nearly 2 inches on each side and this line still held! Amazing.
Posted Image



This is the whip test and the hardest test for lines to pass. You have to pressurize the lines and then rotate the line at 800rpms for 36 hours. As you can tell on the left the line is attached to a rotating wheel and then a fixed point on the right. This is over 1.7 million revolutions in 36 hours this line must rotate to pass this test. If you've ever taken a wire and bend it back and forth a few times to break the wire you know how hard bending metal is on the structure of it.
Video of the whip test being done. https://www.motomumm...es/spiegler.mp4
Posted Image
Corey
-------
Posted Image
Where all shipping is free.

#3 Redgecko

    Pic whore

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,745 posts
    Joined: 28-November 10
  • Location: Wisconsin, formally UK
  • Bike: 06 50th Anniversary R1

Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:59 AM

Another nice write up Corey, thanks.
Posted Image

#4 Carver

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 51 posts
    Joined: 29-November 10
  • Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta
  • Bike: 08 R1 Street, 07 R1 Track

Posted 10 December 2010 - 01:06 AM

Excellent review, Corey. :fact
2007 YAMAHA R1 - Race bike - Hotbodies race bodywork, Vortex rearsets and gas cap, Galfer SS lines, CL-55 Racing pads, FP Racing short levers, soon to have PCV and M4 Y-pipe and exup removal
2008 YAMAHA R1 - Street bike - Galfer SS lines, FP Racing short levers, Driven D3 grips, Vortex rearsets

#5 MotoMummy

    Parts Bitch

  • Administrators
  • 3,404 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Texas Y'all
  • Bike: 07 GSXR 1000 & 99 R1

Posted 10 December 2010 - 01:16 AM

If you guys have any questions let us know. If we don't know we'll contact the brake guru's in the industry and figure it out for you :) If you have any suggestions or I left Anything out please post up as well. These are here for knowledge and the more people that ask questions or contribute the better.
Corey
-------
Posted Image
Where all shipping is free.

#6 MikeSuzuki05

    Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,038 posts
    Joined: 28-November 10
  • Location: US
  • Bike: 05 600

Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:55 AM

Wow!! Nice write-up on this.. I have currently stock lines.. i need to upgrade mine.. Ive been thinking alot!

Speigler :threesome
Posted Image
05 Suzuki GSXR600
03 Turbo Lexus IS300
03 Honda Ruckus
01 Honda Rebel
93 Nissan Hardbody P/U

#7 MotoMummy

    Parts Bitch

  • Administrators
  • 3,404 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Texas Y'all
  • Bike: 07 GSXR 1000 & 99 R1

Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:08 AM

You won't regret the Spieglers. We run them on all of our bikes. Robert Jenson does, Larry Pegram, M4 Suzuki, and soo many more. Not only DOT, but TUV approved as well. That doesn't affect performance or anything, but it does mean they meet very strict testing as you can see from above. Especially passing TUV as their testing is much more rigorous then ours.
Corey
-------
Posted Image
Where all shipping is free.

#8 Redgecko

    Pic whore

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,745 posts
    Joined: 28-November 10
  • Location: Wisconsin, formally UK
  • Bike: 06 50th Anniversary R1

Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:58 AM

Think you'll find Goodridge pass TUV too
Posted Image

#9 MotoMummy

    Parts Bitch

  • Administrators
  • 3,404 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Texas Y'all
  • Bike: 07 GSXR 1000 & 99 R1

Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:32 PM

The ones sold in the US are not DOT or TUV approved.
Corey
-------
Posted Image
Where all shipping is free.

#10 MikeSuzuki05

    Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,038 posts
    Joined: 28-November 10
  • Location: US
  • Bike: 05 600

Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:12 PM

View PostMotoMummy, on 10 December 2010 - 05:08 AM, said:

You won't regret the Spieglers. We run them on all of our bikes. Robert Jenson does, Larry Pegram, M4 Suzuki, and soo many more. Not only DOT, but TUV approved as well. That doesn't affect performance or anything, but it does mean they meet very strict testing as you can see from above. Especially passing TUV as their testing is much more rigorous then ours.



hell yes! Thats what im talking about !! :beer
Posted Image
05 Suzuki GSXR600
03 Turbo Lexus IS300
03 Honda Ruckus
01 Honda Rebel
93 Nissan Hardbody P/U

#11 Upgrade

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 389 posts
    Joined: 26-November 10
  • Location: So Cali..
  • Bike: 07 GSX -R600

Posted 11 December 2010 - 02:26 PM

Thanks again for these reviews... :badgerslayer
Who me...

#12 rmerchant3

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
    Joined: 26-November 10

Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:08 AM

Not to knock any brand, but to just post up my experiences...

I have tried three different brands of lines and these are my results. The first set I purchased and installed were the Goodridge standard ss lines. These were for my CBR F3 way back when and the difference was phenomenal. Level feel was greatly improved and response went way up. I had no complaints with these lines except that I thought they could have been a tad lighter.

I then tried the Spiegler lines on my 08 R6. The feel went up SLIGHTLY compared to stock but they always felt a little soft to me. Weight and quality of construction were by far better than the Goodridge lines, but the lack of performance they offered weren't worth that trade off for me.

I then sold the Spieglers and purchased some Fren Tubo CF lines. The weight of them was mind boggling to be honest. They were very light compared to the other lines. Even the banjo bolts were substantially lighter. And you don't have to add the wrap to the lines except to where the lines come into contact with other bike parts to prevent a rub through. quality was great and on par with the Spieglers. Performance wise they were just as good as the Goodridge lines and maybe even a tad better, but not enough to comment.

So that is my personal experience with the three lines that have already been discussed here.

#13 MotoMummy

    Parts Bitch

  • Administrators
  • 3,404 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Texas Y'all
  • Bike: 07 GSXR 1000 & 99 R1

Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:30 AM

I would bet money the difference you're feeling is from how well you bled one or another. Most all track guys go with the cheapest ss lines they can get as there isn't a difference in performance. Well there may be, but none that I bet anyone on this forum can tell. Maybe the MotoGP riders. If the inner bore is different you'll feel a difference for sure, but most of the -2 lines have been discontinued. Now most everyone has an inner bore of 3mm and none of them flex.

Also if those lines performed better every high end racer would use them, but the fact is nearly 100% of racers use SS lines. With lithium calipers, cf brakes, etc if it was better they would use it, but nearly all just run SS lines of one brand or another. From MotoGP to club level racers.
Corey
-------
Posted Image
Where all shipping is free.

#14 rmerchant3

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
    Joined: 26-November 10

Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:43 AM

View PostMotoMummy, on 17 December 2010 - 03:30 AM, said:

I would bet money the difference you're feeling is from how well you bled one or another. Most all track guys go with the cheapest ss lines they can get as there isn't a difference in performance. Well there may be, but none that I bet anyone on this forum can tell. Maybe the MotoGP riders. If the inner bore is different you'll feel a difference for sure, but most of the -2 lines have been discontinued. Now most everyone has an inner bore of 3mm and none of them flex.


Instead if money can we bet on a 520 setup? :beer

LOL, I am very meticulous when it comes to my bikes maintenance and wrenching on it so the variables between the bleeding processes were null. Plus being a Master Tech for Acura kinda helps my know how when it comes to working on these things :fact :mrgreen All jokes aside though, there really was a noticeable difference between the Fren Tubos and the Spieglers. The Spieglers weren't BAD by any means and definitely better than stock, but just not as good as the Frens in my opinion.

#15 Moto_Joe

    Member

  • MotoMummy Sponsored Rider
  • PipPipPip
  • 155 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Macon Ga

Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:46 AM

View Postrmerchant3, on 17 December 2010 - 03:08 AM, said:

Not to knock any brand, but to just post up my experiences...

I have tried three different brands of lines and these are my results. The first set I purchased and installed were the Goodridge standard ss lines. These were for my CBR F3 way back when and the difference was phenomenal. Level feel was greatly improved and response went way up. I had no complaints with these lines except that I thought they could have been a tad lighter.

I then tried the Spiegler lines on my 08 R6. The feel went up SLIGHTLY compared to stock but they always felt a little soft to me. Weight and quality of construction were by far better than the Goodridge lines, but the lack of performance they offered weren't worth that trade off for me.

I then sold the Spieglers and purchased some Fren Tubo CF lines. The weight of them was mind boggling to be honest. They were very light compared to the other lines. Even the banjo bolts were substantially lighter. And you don't have to add the wrap to the lines except to where the lines come into contact with other bike parts to prevent a rub through. quality was great and on par with the Spieglers. Performance wise they were just as good as the Goodridge lines and maybe even a tad better, but not enough to comment.

So that is my personal experience with the three lines that have already been discussed here.



Try the same test with all those brands, on ONE bike, so that they are the only variable
the differences you are likely feeling are from the differences in the bike, and its other components, as well as how well or poorly it was bled.

I would venture a guess that 75% of brake systems are not completely properly bled. yes, that many. I have yet to work on a bike for someone who was having "fade issues I can not get rid of" that a PROPER bleed did not cure.

what you have is hardly a true comparison.


A SS line is a SS line, other than the -2 superbike lines that nobody makes anymore. they are all basically the same. different colors is about the only difference.

The only difference you actually did speak of that was factual was the weight of the lines. yes, CF lines are lighter.

Performance wise though, even they are not any better. a 3mm line, if it doesnt swell, doesnt matter what it is made with, will perform the same basically. Be it rigid, SS, CF whatever. The key is it does not "swell" with brake pressure. None of the above swell with brake pressure. They all perform the same
Posted Image
MotoMummy.com :US129photos:D&A cycles : Livengood Motorsports : VHS : JRI Shocks : M4 Exhaust :Moto-D racing : Hazardous Racing : Dunlop : SBS : SFH www.GoMotoJoe.com
2012 WERA National Challenge 5th place
WERA Expert #20

#16 Moto_Joe

    Member

  • MotoMummy Sponsored Rider
  • PipPipPip
  • 155 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Macon Ga

Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:49 AM

View Postrmerchant3, on 17 December 2010 - 03:43 AM, said:

Instead if money can we bet on a 520 setup? :beer

LOL, I am very meticulous when it comes to my bikes maintenance and wrenching on it so the variables between the bleeding processes were null. Plus being a Master Tech for Acura kinda helps my know how when it comes to working on these things :fact :mrgreen All jokes aside though, there really was a noticeable difference between the Fren Tubos and the Spieglers. The Spieglers weren't BAD by any means and definitely better than stock, but just not as good as the Frens in my opinion.

As far as the difference in feel goes, you also have to take into account the inner linings of the lines as well. This is where most of the expansion is limited at and the outer casing be it SS, Kevlar, or CF is secondary.



If I spent $400 on something I 'expected" to perform way better, I likely could tell myself it was so too.

It is called a placebo effect.

I have a better bet for you.

I take your OEM lines, two or three different brands of SS lines, and your fren turbo lines.

I install them one at a time, and cover them so you dont know what lines you have.

I BET you cant tell me which one was the fren turbos. I bet for MOST riders (I dont know you so I cant say for you) they wont even know which ones were the OEM lines.
Posted Image
MotoMummy.com :US129photos:D&A cycles : Livengood Motorsports : VHS : JRI Shocks : M4 Exhaust :Moto-D racing : Hazardous Racing : Dunlop : SBS : SFH www.GoMotoJoe.com
2012 WERA National Challenge 5th place
WERA Expert #20

#17 MotoMummy

    Parts Bitch

  • Administrators
  • 3,404 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Texas Y'all
  • Bike: 07 GSXR 1000 & 99 R1

Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:49 AM

If you were local I would love to do a blind test and yes i would bet a 520 kit :) At the track up in MN a few guys swore their HH brand pads were the best so I took their 4 bikes and installed 4 random brands on their bikes. Each brand was what one of them liked. Not ONE of them could guess which pads were on what bike lol. Now with pads it can be done, just not as often as most people think. With lines I would be rich wagering that people can't guess what lines are being used.

If they were better lines more race teams would use them, but they don't. Race teams are about sponsorships, but they are about winning more so. I'm not saying Fren's are bad either or Spieglers. I'm just saying they perform the same and the facts/physics back it up. Same inner bore, no flex. What other feature will make them perform better? None, but if you got the cf lines there is the placebo affect to think of as well LOL. Often when people pay more then like to think it's better to justify the purchase when in fact it's in their head. This happens with purchases of all types.
Corey
-------
Posted Image
Where all shipping is free.

#18 MotoMummy

    Parts Bitch

  • Administrators
  • 3,404 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Texas Y'all
  • Bike: 07 GSXR 1000 & 99 R1

Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:50 AM

damn joe you beat me to it. First guy that pulled the brake pad test got me on that test. I couldn't tell the difference with any of the HH pads. Granted I was a new rider back then, but i bet my % wouldn't get much better now either. Yes, picking the oem lines would be the easiest, but still a hard task for most.

The pads and bleed job are what most people feel. Most people do pads, lines, and bleed job all at the same time so the end result is pretty dramatic, but most of it is surely in the pads/bleed job.
Corey
-------
Posted Image
Where all shipping is free.

#19 Moto_Joe

    Member

  • MotoMummy Sponsored Rider
  • PipPipPip
  • 155 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Macon Ga

Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:54 AM

get out of my head man :lmao

blind taste tests have been done on tires even with PRO racers. and they had a hard time

With TIRES. One of the parts that changes the most from brand to brand.
Posted Image
MotoMummy.com :US129photos:D&A cycles : Livengood Motorsports : VHS : JRI Shocks : M4 Exhaust :Moto-D racing : Hazardous Racing : Dunlop : SBS : SFH www.GoMotoJoe.com
2012 WERA National Challenge 5th place
WERA Expert #20

#20 Moto_Joe

    Member

  • MotoMummy Sponsored Rider
  • PipPipPip
  • 155 posts
    Joined: 25-November 10
  • Location: Macon Ga

Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:56 AM

For what it is worth, I would say I am "above average" when it comes to feel and ability.

I dont think I could pass any of the said "tests" either. I could tell a difference, and which one i like, but could it very well may not be the one I think it is.
Posted Image
MotoMummy.com :US129photos:D&A cycles : Livengood Motorsports : VHS : JRI Shocks : M4 Exhaust :Moto-D racing : Hazardous Racing : Dunlop : SBS : SFH www.GoMotoJoe.com
2012 WERA National Challenge 5th place
WERA Expert #20





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users